When we meet an entrepreneur, we often wonder: How did they fund their startup? How do they foster its growth? And, how do they manage it all?

In this episode, we sit down with Mallory Greene to delve into the challenges of fundraising as a woman, varying leadership styles, and the mental health aspects of entrepreneurship.

If you're keen to uncover both the triumphs and trials faced by entrepreneurs, this episode is packed with insights and tools. Dive in to understand why the entrepreneurial journey is one of grit and resilience.

Stay with us to discover the nuances of securing funding as a woman, supporting female-led businesses, and gleaning tips on effective business management. Don’t forget to rate, subscribe, and share this enlightening episode!

About the Guest:

The co-founder and CEO of Eirene, an innovative online funeral services platform in Canada, offers users the convenience of planning an affordable, direct cremation without the need for in-person consultations. Serving the Greater Toronto Area, Eirene, licensed by the Bereavement Authority of Ontario, ensures top-tier services through vetted industry partners. With a commitment to simplicity, compassion, and transparency, Eirene aims to be Canada's premier funeral planning option. Before Eirene, the CEO was a pivotal member of Wealthsimple's founding team, contributing to various sectors and learning the nuances of building a business. This leader emphasizes community engagement, allyship, and a vision for a collective better future.

Key Takeaways:

  • Embrace clarity in communication, even if it challenges societal expectations and double standards, especially for women.
  • Advocate for a shift in the way women entrepreneurs are treated during fundraising efforts.
  • Stay self-aware and authentic, even when facing external criticisms. Grounding oneself in self-belief and capabilities is vital.
  • As an entrepreneur, proactively address mental health due to the inherent challenges and pressures of the role.

Contact info:

Mallory’s LinkedIn

Mallory’s Website

Originally published September 2023

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[00:00:00] Rob Pintwala: Today's episode is with Mallory Green. Mallory is the founder of Irene, a company offering accessible and approachable cremation services. Mallory grew up in Aurora, Ontario and spent five years as an early employee at Wealthsimple before taking the leap and starting her own company. During this conversation, we discussed what it's like to be a female founder and entrepreneur.

[00:01:28] Rob Pintwala: The challenges faced with raising money to start a company. Particularly as a woman, and we talk about Mallory's leadership style, her passion to support other women, and we also chat about mental health. Mallory shares her journey on managing her own health and performance as a founder. Please enjoy my conversation with Mallory Green.

[00:01:50] Rob Pintwala: Okay, Mallory, thank you so much for joining me today. I wanted to jump in and just start at first with your upbringing. Now that you're running your own business, but I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, that one of your parents is a funeral director?

[00:02:09] Mallory Greene: Hospice. Yeah. And it's funny, I mean, growing up I was slightly embarrassed that my dad was a funeral director because when I would tell people they were very off put by it. I mean, they were like, oh, I don't know anyone in that industry. They'd make upside jokes. And so, yeah, I mean I've really grown up around the end of life industry overall.

[00:02:30] Mallory Greene: I grew up in Aurora, Ontario, a small town. Now it's quite big, but at the time, a really small town. I went to French immersion, which I think I always reflect on if I would put my children through French immersion school eventually. And I think it taught me a lot of discipline. And I do think there's a lot to be said about your brain and development in terms of learning a second language.

[00:02:51] Mallory Greene: So I really enjoyed that. My French is horrible now, to be honest. But then I went on to study international development at the University of Guelph. I initially actually got into Guelph with sociology because I had absolutely no idea what I wanted to study. And I feel like sociology is kinda like the default when you don't know what you want to do.

[00:03:08] Mallory Greene: Which, I mean, I guess you could argue that I am. But yeah, I ended up switching to international development and I think a big part of that was knowing kind of my limitations, which is I don't actually really enjoy school. I'm not like a big school person.

[00:03:27] Mallory Greene: If I was going to go through university, which was always really . I would say from my parents a requirement to go to university, which I have different opinions of for my own children. But I wanted to study something that I was really interested and passionate about, and international development was great to be in.

[00:03:44] Mallory Greene: Learned so much outside of this tiny little town that I grew up in, of what was going on in the world and in ways that I could make an impact. And then I graduated and really had no work experience. You know, a lot of people are diving into the co-ops and getting a lot of real [00:04:00] work experience, but I had none when I graduated.

[00:04:02] Mallory Greene: So I was a little lost when I graduated. But ultimately here I am today, so it all kind of unfolded appropriately.

[00:04:08] Rob Pintwala: Yeah, I was telling you before we started recording that, I listened to another interview with you, with on the hard part, like a podcast focused on Canadian entrepreneurs and tech people. And kind of saying that you felt pretty unprepared and under experience, I guess graduating and just like looking for a job.

[00:04:32] Rob Pintwala: And you mentioned you taking your first job in tech and how that experience was for you. But I guess my question is more about when did you know that you wanted to be an entrepreneur, start your own business? When did that kind of bubble up for you?

[00:04:46] Mallory Greene: I mean, if you look back, it's funny when I hear other entrepreneurs talk about them. Upbringing, they'll always say I, I had a lemonade stand and I was selling comic books and like, I was not like that at all. I have a very specific personality type, which is, I am very forward. You know, as a child, everyone called me bossy.

[00:05:06] Mallory Greene: But honestly, if you asked me when I was younger what I wanted to be, I would've said a mom. And I also really wanted to work at Zs. Anyone who knows Zs, if you're my age, you know? honestly now I look at that obsession with Zs as I actually just was really interested in money. I liked the cash register and my grandfather ended up buying me a real life cash register.

[00:05:25] Mallory Greene: So I didn't have those kinds of ambitions growing up. I, once again, kind of moved through my entire life being open to where I end up. It wasn't until I was spending time at Wealthsimple where people kept saying to me, when are you gonna start your own thing? And it's not something I had ever thought of for myself.

[00:05:42] Mallory Greene: And it was funny, like even people in Leadership at WealthSimple were saying it to me and I was like, wait, like I feel still so fresh and young and I have so much to learn, and in my mind, an entrepreneur and a CEO is someone in their fifties. They probably don't look like me. So it wasn't really anything I ever thought for myself, but it was really people pushing me to start looking into what that could be for me.

[00:06:04] Mallory Greene: And I think as I spent more time at Wealthsimple, I recognized that I was really talented. Like I really can get shit done. And yeah I am I'm a, what's it called? A generalist. So I can do a lot of different things and I feel like that's a good trait for an entrepreneur and a founder.

[00:06:21] Mallory Greene: So over that time, I kind of just started exploring what that would look like for me.

[00:06:24] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. it sounds like you kind of just like at some point just like kind of embraced your personality type as you referenced.

[00:06:33] Mallory Greene: Yeah.

[00:06:33] Rob Pintwala: Tell me a little bit more.

[00:06:35] Mallory Greene: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:36] Rob Pintwala: Go through any phases where you were trying to hold your personality in if you like, and hear anyone's feelings.

[00:06:41] Mallory Greene: Oh, absolutely. I mean my, even to this day people are like, you're too much. And I was just like, I don't care. But you know, my mom always tells a story of when I was about four, my brother's, three years older than me, we were at a play place. And this kid kept, this little boy kept pushing me, and my brother's like very quiet.

[00:07:04] Mallory Greene: And so he kind of was just like not saying anything and he was getting pushed as well. And my mom said, I just turned around and screamed at him. And My mom always says, I came out of the womb a certain way. Like, I just have always been who I am.

[00:07:16] Mallory Greene: And I think through high school, you know, it's, you could feel very insecure. You're trying to kind of blend in. And then even through university, I've had my fair share of feedback about kind of who I am as a person. But just with work experience, like when I started working at WealthSimple, that's when I started to feel really confident and secure in who I am because the people around me saw that in me.

[00:07:38] Mallory Greene: And so it, it really honestly has just come with time. I mean, I'm 30 now and I think there's just so much confidence that comes with age, but definitely my entire life I've been told specifically by a lot of men that I don't way too much, but I mean, I am who I am. I can't change that.

[00:07:53] Mallory Greene: And I think that that works to my benefit as a founder. I mean, I always feel like I'm like, I was born to be in this role. it's exciting, but it's had challenges along the way.

[00:08:02] Rob Pintwala: I love that. I love that. It sounds like your mom has been kind of encouraging you to be yourself. Is that right? I also heard you mention her as a, I think you referred to her as your chief emotional officer.

[00:08:14] Mallory Greene: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, running a business is really difficult and there's some days where you're just totally defeated and my mom, my entire life, like my mom is my best friend. She has been such a huge support. People often will say to me, like, once again, how did you become this certain way?

[00:08:33] Mallory Greene: And my mom will say, I just let her be who she is. And like, I think that's brought me to the point I am today. She's just kind of, I'm very different from my mom. Like my mom is. She's friends with everyone. She's very quiet. Like she just is totally, and I'm just like this, like a wild card of a person and, but she just allowed me to be that way.

[00:08:53] Mallory Greene: So my mom is an incredible human and I'm really lucky to have her. But can't even imagine when I'm a mom and if my daughter's like I am, like the two of us are gonna be the scariest people on earth. But it'll be fun…

[00:09:05] Rob Pintwala: So your business for those and I'm sure people heard the intro with me talking about Irene, but maybe we can hear from you, like, what does your business do and how long have you been doing it?

[00:09:16] Mallory Greene: Yeah, so Irene's focus is really on simplifying the end of life process for families. So today we really focus on the funeral aspect. You know, when someone dies, it's not a conversation that most of us have had. We haven't planned for it. And often families are thrown into the process of funeral arangings.

[00:09:34] Mallory Greene: It's overwhelming, very burdensome, and expensive. And so our process, or sorry, what we do today is focused on immediately after a death, kind of supporting families through that funeral arrangement experience. We exist because I think the industry is very outdated. I don't think it serves a lot of consumer needs today.

[00:09:55] Mallory Greene: And I mean, if you look at every other industry that exists, like there have been steps towards innovation and accessibility to services. But I mean, if the funeral industry has stayed, In one specific spot for over a hundred years. Really, it hasn't changed. And so Irene kind of is just a refresh on the industry.

[00:10:13] Mallory Greene: We currently operate in five different provinces, and we started about almost three years ago now which has just been a whirlwind, like, I can't believe it's been three years. You and I kind of started around the same time. But yeah, no, it's been an incredible journey and I think, you know, entrepreneurship is really hard, but ultimately when we get feedback it sounds so cheesy to say, like changing people's lives, but honestly that's, that's what we're doing.

[00:10:38] Mallory Greene: Like we're really making a painful experience a little bit easier for families. And so, yeah, we've definitely been lucky enough to serve thousands of families and continue to grow our services.

[00:10:48] Rob Pintwala: I love that if I love what you're saying about the feedback too, because personally, I can get disconnected from what I do. Pretty easily. I mean,

[00:10:57] Mallory Greene: Yeah.

[00:10:58] Rob Pintwala: can too, like literally sit behind a screen and talk to people on Slack and you're like, okay, what's actually happening here? And you know, you're literally helping families when a loved one dies.

[00:11:11] Mallory Greene: Yeah. Truly like one of the worst times of their lives. Right. And yeah, you know, you have those really hard days, and then I'll get feedback from a family and once again, it's so cheesy, but it makes it worth it because, I mean, I think both of what both of us are doing, like actually makes an impact in people's lives substantially.

[00:11:28] Mallory Greene: So it's hard. I won't say I did not, I underestimated how hard entrepreneurship is, but you know, you keep just putting one foot above in front of the other and, and make it happen. 

[00:11:39] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. So, and I understand that you quit your last job without fully knowing what you were gonna do. Right. But you knew, and you knew you

[00:11:48] Mallory Greene: Yeah.

[00:11:48] Rob Pintwala: to start something, but you weren't, maybe you had this idea, right, but you weren't necessarily like, you didn't do like the side hustle thing and like completely kill yourself before, you know.

[00:12:00] Mallory Greene: No. You know, in my mind I remember my co-founder and I were talking about at the time and we were trying to do the nighttime hustle slack thing. I'm kind of, I mean, I'm really an all in or all out person. Like I'm very black and white in that capacity. So I spent five years at Wal Simple.

[00:12:18] Mallory Greene: That was a, that's a really long time for a startup, and I knew I would get to a point where it just made sense for me to leave. And I had a moment that I remember I left work and I called my mom and I was like, this is it. I'm done. I gave myself a week. I always think it's important to sleep on decisions, big decisions.

[00:12:34] Mallory Greene: I gave myself a week and I still felt the exact same way. And so I sat down with Mike first and we had the conversation about me leaving and I had no plans. I was like, I'm gonna cold Turkey quit. Luckily I was in a situation where I could afford to do that, and actually what ended up happening is initially I was gonna take two weeks off of work and I was like, then I'm gonna just die right into it.

[00:12:57] Mallory Greene: And I ended up taking four months off it just, I was so, I didn't realize how burnt out I was. And after five years, like you just need to take a step back and kind of reflect if you're able to. And so I was lucky enough, my brother got married, my cousin got married. Like, I had a lot of different important events and things happening in my life that I could be fully involved in.

[00:13:17] Mallory Greene: And then I'm glad I took that time off because then I dove into Irene and I basically haven't stopped ever since. So really good to do. I don't know if I would recommend it to everyone to just take a leap like that, but I mean, everything I've, every decision I've made there is thought behind and I kind of have this outlook that like, everything he has always worked out.

[00:13:37] Mallory Greene: I'm trying, I try to kind of operate in that capacity, like I'm always gonna figure out a solution

[00:13:42] Rob Pintwala: It's great, it's a great way to think. Yeah. 

[00:13:45] Mallory Greene: That doesn't work for everyone. But so far it's worked for me. So, fingers crossed 

[00:13:49] Rob Pintwala: It's so, yeah. It seems so healthy. So to just go with it I've a separate conversation with you about, You experience kind of getting started and like looking to raise money and that whole process, maybe you can shed some light on like the stress of trying to find money to start a business so you can maybe pay yourself a tiny bit or maybe you didn't even pay yourself

[00:14:11] Rob Pintwala: But also being, you know, there's discourse dialogue about being a female founder and the challenges that come with that. Like, can you speak to that at all?

[00:14:23] Mallory Greene: Yeah, no, fundraising is the, like worst experience of my life and continues to be. I do not enjoy it. I think as time goes on, you become more confident in what you're doing as a business. And so when I enter investor meetings, even today, I know my job is to describe what we do and it's not up to me if someone agrees with it or is interested or like, I can only do so much.

[00:14:46] Mallory Greene: And so I think my outlook on fundraising has changed significantly. Whereas when I first started, like I remember I called you, I think I was in like the McDonald's parking lot and I was like having a meltdown. And when I first started, like I, it made me so frustrated when people would give me feedback that didn't make any sense.

[00:15:01] Mallory Greene: Like someone told me the market's too small and I'm like, Everyone dies. That doesn't really make any sense. And or like I had another investor who told me you should just like, hire a few friends and just run a business with your friends. And I was like, I feel like slightly demeaning 'cause I'm building like a billion dollar business.

[00:15:18] Mallory Greene: Like I'm not building a lifestyle business with my friends. So I had a lot of frustrations and you know, I am, I don't wanna call myself a control freak, but I like to think I can convince people and fundraising was really the first experience that I had. Just like, no, I had to learn with time kind of how to pitch, but I just didn't really have that much control over it.

[00:15:40] Mallory Greene: So it was horrible. Horrible. And continues to be, because as you said, there's the layer of not only am I for a first town, first time founder raising in an environment that really, there's no knowledge of and not a lot of fundraising behind it, or sorry investor money behind it. I also walk in, and I am a young woman, like I'm 30, but I look a lot younger than I am.

[00:16:03] Mallory Greene: People often say, okay, I'm 18, and then I have long blonde hair and I have fake nails. And, I think there's just like, there's always gonna be unconscious bias towards me. And so even I've had to bring myself to acknowledge that, right? Like, you have to acknowledge the circumstances that you're in.

[00:16:20] Mallory Greene: And I've had a lot of weird experiences fundraising, like even just inappropriate, I would say. But we're so lucky in terms of who ended up saying yes to us and that we brought on as investors are just incredible people. So everyone that has rejected us, I'm so thankful that they rejected us , because I just think ultimately you end up, once again, I like my outlook is I just, I end up where I need to be and, and with the right people.

[00:16:46] Mallory Greene: And not to say it hasn't been incredibly stressful, but definitely. I mean, I've gotten to this point, so I can only keep going.

[00:16:55] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Yeah. What about some of the challenges specifically about being a female founder or even just like, we even talked a little bit, I remember about some of these kind of like investor funds that almost claim to be like just for women and like women what do you think about the concept of women supporting women?

[00:17:21] Mallory Greene: Ooh. Controversial question. Oh yeah, I have a lot to say about it. But you know, I have to put my PR answer on here. It's interesting. I'll tell you a really funny story, and this is actually not. I'll then talk about some of the women's funds. But we went on, and I hope he's listening to this on LinkedIn. We saw someone who said they had no women in their angel investment portfolio.

[00:17:43] Mallory Greene: And they're looking to be connected to really interesting people doing interesting things. And so we reached out and we had a phone call with this person. First of all, this person looked like they hadn't brushed their hair in like four years. And I just think like, I always as a woman have to come looking like I am so presentable.

[00:18:02] Mallory Greene: Like there's a, there's the double standard there. You know, like I even saw that that Stan Friedman guy or whatever, like he was playing, like he was playing video games while he was pitching. Where I have to be like Barbie robot. Like I'm perfect and my business perfect. Like, it's just, it's insane.

[00:18:16] Mallory Greene: Like, going into those meetings is just insane. I shouldn't use the term insane. But anyways, coconuts, I'll say. And so then you go into them and he goes, well, I don't really like that. None of the big funds have invested in you. And in my mind, I'm just like, if that's everyone's outlook, women will never be funded.

[00:18:37] Mallory Greene: Because no one's funding women to begin with, especially the bigger firms. And so then if all the angel investors won't invest in you because no one is big, then we're just in this constant cycle. And honestly, that experience is a direct reflection of fundraising as a woman. And I remember in that meeting, like he was like, why don't you get back to me in September and we can kind of reconvene?

[00:18:58] Mallory Greene: And I was like I'm not, we're gonna be done fundraising by then. I'm not getting back to you in September. And like, I got to a point now where I have so much confidence in those meetings 'cause you're either in or you're out. And also don't disrespect my time. So that I honestly think is such a big reflection of fundraising as a woman.

[00:19:15] Mallory Greene: And yeah, you know what? I am a girl girls through and through. Like I am a feminist. I love women. I think my experience with a lot of women's funds today has been that there is so much work involved to get very little capital that it's a disservice to women. So I'll give you an example.

[00:19:38] Mallory Greene: We had an investor that we were connected to in Austria. He is kind of like a small angel fund with a group of people. I hadn't even had a phone call with him. He got the pitch deck and he was like, I'll give you $300,000. Like that was it. I still spoke to him. He was in, it was done. And like at the stage, we're at like it once again, we have some revenue.

[00:20:01] Mallory Greene: I mean, we have a lot of revenue, but have the validation for what we're doing, but we're not at the series a's level where we have to have a lot of things in order. Right. It was safe at that point. Whereas I have spoken to some women funds where I really have to jump through hoops just to get $15,000 and.

[00:20:22] Mallory Greene: Once again, I think if we're really talking about moving the needle on funding for women at the stages that you're, they're investing in these like smaller angel groups. You're either yes or no. Don't drag people along. Don't say the bill reconnects. You're just, you have to be more, yeah, just more straightforward.

[00:20:40] Mallory Greene: I would say a lot of other funds are just yes or no. And it's so much easier for entrepreneurs, but that's been my experience with a lot of the women based funds. Not to say that they're not supporting women, I mean, they are investing. But I think that there's just a lot of time wasted and, as women, like we already have so many obstacles already. 

[00:21:00] Mallory Greene: Like I think that's my biggest piece of feedback today. And I hope to see that change. I've actually, I mean, I had a fund who it was, I'm telling, I'm really telling the dirt for you today, so I hope a lot of people go listen to this. I had a fund that, and I won't name who they are, but I mean there's not that many in Canada.

[00:21:17] Mallory Greene: Like, I've definitely been ghosted by some women funds, but the one that really sticks out to me was I spoke to them and I was supposed to speak to one of their investment analysts and instead they put an intern on the call with me once again, like, don't disrespect my time. This person had clearly never done an investor call before, so they didn't really even know anything about my business.

[00:21:37] Mallory Greene: They hadn't looked at the pitch deck and they didn't even know what questions to ask. So it was a 10 minute call. 'cause once again, I'm not really gonna waste my time. I got an email a couple days later saying that you could see where they had just copy pasted my name and, 'cause it wasn't like, you know, I have to clear formatting usually when you send an email.

[00:21:53] Mallory Greene: And it said that they usually invest in businesses that are further along. And like I, my response was what's further along than 1 million in revenue in one year? Like there are, like, you can't be further along than that at this point because they were a pre-seed fund. So just, you know, it's like it's once again.

[00:22:14] Mallory Greene: So I gave feedback. My feedback was like, I can see that you didn't clear this formatting, so I just got a templated response. I, you wasted my time. And I feel bad for the intern who was thrown into this position. And like, it's not even accurate. And you know what? Like I'm in a position where I don't need to, it's not about burning bridges.

[00:22:35] Mallory Greene: It's ultimately about if no one gives them this feedback, then it will continue as is. And once again I am in the role that I am and will eventually invest in women. And I have so much that I'll do differently than what currently exists in the market. So I'll be the person that speaks up and provides feedback because I just think it's not fair.

[00:22:57] Mallory Greene: And I speak to a lot of founders who have a, a lot of women founders who have a lot of hard feedback and time with fundraising. And I think that there's so many ways we can improve it.

[00:23:05] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Well said.

[00:23:07] Rob Pintwala: That's gonna be amazing. While we're on the topic, what about just like, you know, sort of like the, what is your ideal of like the kind of ultimate like female leader, like, not necessarily investor, but kind of like someone who's in a high level executive role or the head of the company.

[00:23:30] Rob Pintwala: What are the kind of traits that you aspire to be like and or are there any female leaders that you do look up to?

[00:23:39] Mallory Greene: Yeah. Oh my God. Are there any female leaders I looked up to? I don't know if I had the answer to that. I mean, I just, Beyonce, of course. Beyonce's, you know, she just has a good reputation. She's so hardworking, but she's so, so kind. I don't really care about celebrities, but I just think if you can go that long a career and have a good reputation, that's, there's something to be said about that.

[00:24:03] Mallory Greene: And I mean, I look at the videos of her performances, like who can sing and dance like that. She just, she's so incredible. I'm sure there's a lot of incredible women that I could name, but none. Beyonce just always comes to mind 'cause I just love her. In terms of the type of leader that I think I am, you know, I'm a very firm and direct person.

[00:24:23] Mallory Greene: I think that's so important as a leader. And, but I also am very empathetic. I can read emotions very well. I'm very in tune with my team. And so I think it's kind of like a parent where you have to be firm and make it clear kind of what your position is in a situation, but also still be kind and compassionate.

[00:24:43] Mallory Greene: And I think both of those things can exist at the same time. What's interesting is, As a woman because I am so firm and very, I don't like using the term blunt, but I'm just clear, I'm a very clear communicator. I don't add fluff to what I say. Especially as time goes on. I just don't have time to add fluff.

[00:25:00] Mallory Greene: A lot of men that I've worked alongside have made comments, not in our team, but just kind of external vendors and things have made comments about my communication, which once again, I think is a total double standard. 'cause if it came from a man, he wouldn't get any feedback. But you get to a point, like as a, as a founder and CEO, that I just can't please everyone.

[00:25:19] Mallory Greene: I can stay true to myself and ensure that my team feels supported. But yeah, I think that's really the biggest trait. Patience is a big one. And I'm not a patient person, so that has been very hard for me. 'cause I operate at like, 24/7 nonstop. Not everyone does. So kind of expectations from that perspective, I think has been a big learning curve, but work in progress.

[00:25:45] Mallory Greene: I mean, I'm, I am not perfect, and I'll be the first to say that to anyone on my team. Like I'm learning just like your learning. But I think if you can be open and honest about that's really all that matters.

[00:25:54] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Yeah. What are you sad about the double standard there. I'm, you're fi you're, we're kind of finally seeing more conversation about that. Like, I think Adam Grant just posted an article in like the New York Times or something about like the double standard of like men and women and, you know, kind of like coming across as bitchy versus coming across as confident.

[00:26:14] Mallory Greene: Yeah. You know how many times I get called snarky just because I said like just one line, like, it's like there's, yeah. There's a total number that'll send.

[00:26:23] Rob Pintwala: Just like the hill that you almost have to keep climbing over and up, right? It's like nonstop. Like it's not going away. Right? What do

[00:26:31] Mallory Greene: No. No, and I think once again I got to a point where I release myself from other people's opinions of me because I know myself so deeply and I know where my heart is

[00:26:41] Rob Pintwala: Lets talk about that. Like, so I'm kind of maybe guessing here too much, but I think like, You know, I'm a man. No. Like if I was a woman, like I would be, it's, it must be exhausting to, if you want to be firm and, you know, be strong and you're coming up against this kind of opposition all the time, like, that's completely exhausting, right?

[00:27:04] Mallory Greene: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:27:05] Rob Pintwala: Say you've released yourself from some of that because you know who you are. 

[00:27:08] Mallory Greene: yeah.

[00:27:09] Rob Pintwala: So it sounds like there's a lot of kind of self-confidence tied up in that, or at least like, you know, you're, Like self-esteem. So do you think that's, do you think that's maybe a missing piece or like kind of one of the missing pieces for kind of women taking the next step?

[00:27:26] Mallory Greene: Yeah, like I think women are taught that like, you know, we shouldn't be overly, I mean, we're literally raised in an environment where it's like the whole Barbie movie, which is like, just be a specific way. Like, don't be overconfident, don't be cocky, like all of these things. And, so we're just told to be less.

[00:27:46] Mallory Greene: Right. And as I said, my entire life, I've been a very specific way. But I mean, I would always, I probably always cared about what people thought of me, especially if someone would say something that wasn't true. And I've had experiences like that over the years where I've had people that, once again, external people that we've kind of worked alongside that have said things about me that aren't true.

[00:28:06] Mallory Greene: And I remember the very first incident of that happening, like, I was so upset. I called my co-founder, I was so upset about it and I was like, they're saying this, and like, that's just not true about me. And well, he's like, yeah, it's not true about you. So like, we need to move on. And I think once again, it's come with age and time where I can't preoccupy myself with that.

[00:28:26] Mallory Greene: I can be who I am and what people think about me. I just, I don't really care. I only care about who I love, what they think about me, like my mom, my dad, my brother, my friends, et cetera. But I definitely think confidence is built over time. And I still have moments where I kind of, I think I kind of shrink a little bit.

[00:28:44] Mallory Greene: Like, especially even going into investor meetings where I'm kind of like, okay, pull back a little bit. Or I don't feel as confident. Like, I, I mean, every day there's times where I'm not feeling as confident, but you know, you know, people, women always say that they feel that way, and then they get in a room with a bunch of like CEOs or leaders and they're like, oh, like you're just a, you're just a human.

[00:29:05] Mallory Greene: And you're not perfect and you're not the smartest person in the room. I can be this too. Like I can be a CEO too. And I think, yeah, you just, the more business people you meet, you're just like, oh wait, I think I might actually be a better business person than you. So yeah. It's just, it's come with meeting people and time and, and all of those factors, but I still have moments of insecurity for sure.

[00:29:27] Mallory Greene: 'cause people will say, people will give you feedback that makes you insecure, but you just have to bounce back.

[00:29:33] Rob Pintwala: That's great. It's so interesting that yeah just the kind of what can just live in your own mind, right? Like what can kind of hold you back.

[00:29:42] Mallory Greene: Oh, for sure. It's like imposter syndrome, right. But I remember years ago we had a woman come in to speak to all the women at WealthSimple about imposter syndrome and she said like, people who don't have imposter syndrome basically are like psychopaths, like. Like actually a psycho so fast.

[00:29:58] Mallory Greene: Like it's normal if you're a high performing person to have imposter syndrome and to feel not always confident and to like, reflect and maybe even judge yourself. Like I think there's something to be said about being so in tune with yourself and wanting better, like constantly pushing myself to be better.

[00:30:13] Mallory Greene: 'cause I think people who don't, that eventually backfires. I mean, a lot of the tech people who just, they get like so beyond themselves and then it all comes crumbling down. I think it's good to stay kind of aware, yeah, not be like a psycho who's super confident all the time.

[00:30:31] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Maybe to close out the topic in your in the interview I referenced before in the other podcast, you mentioned that if you had kind of like unlimited money, then you start a foundation for supporting women,

[00:30:49] Mallory Greene: Yeah.

[00:30:50] Rob Pintwala: How would you support women with that foundation? What kind of things would you do?

[00:30:55] Mallory Greene: Yeah. I mean, I think, and once again, my PR team's gonna not like me saying this. I look at what is happening in the US and I think we are taking such far steps back for women globally. You know, I think what's so important for women is like education and access to, or just like reproductive rights and like even things about like menstrual, like your menstrual cycle and ensuring you have access to tampons or pads and all these things that essentially end up having women in a really good spot by the time they enter the workforce and.

[00:31:32] Mallory Greene: And can contribute to society. I mean, I dunno the status, but I think isn't the world a higher percentage of women? I think it is.

[00:31:40] Rob Pintwala: I think so.

[00:31:40] Mallory Greene: Yeah. But like half of the population we're doing a huge disservice to, and once again, as I we're taking major steps in terms of women's rights. And so when I say like, you know, I can't outline specifically what that would look like, but I think there are so many steps in terms of education that could support women in, in getting what they need to be great members of society and not just be a womb that carries children.

[00:32:11] Mallory Greene: I mean, if they want, I'm a feminist, so if you want to be that, I love that for you. But if you want to be a CEO, I will also help support you in that. You know what I mean? Like, people often say, am I a feminist? I don't know if I am. But a feminist is just like, you believe women should be able to be whatever they want to be.

[00:32:29] Mallory Greene: That's what I believe. And so, yeah, I would look at it from the education, reproductive rights aspect, I would say. Those are topics that are very important to me. So when I sell my business for a billion dollars that's what's gonna happen. 

[00:32:45] Rob Pintwala: Very excited about that. Very excited about that too.

[00:32:48] Rob Pintwala: I'd love to. Are there any times when you're deflated and like to lose motivation? Like where, what drives

[00:32:56] Mallory Greene: Oh, what do you mean? All the time? Right? All the time.[00:33:00] What drives me? Well, you know, like having a bigger team now, it's like they all depend on me to keep going. And I remember I saw a conversation with Joanna Nicks and she said like, She went into a team meeting and she, and this is probably not even gonna be appropriately paraphrased, but she basically said that she was in her car and she was feeling a bit defeated, but she knew, like, as the leader, she had to go in and like her job is pump everyone up and get them motivated and excited about what they're doing.

[00:33:29] Mallory Greene: And so sometimes you just have to put on a face and approach the day like that. In terms of like, I am a workhorse, so like, I mean, I work, basically everyone's always like, what are you doing this weekend? I'm like, I'm probably working and I have the balance that I need. Like I have a nice work life flow, I would say.

[00:33:44] Mallory Greene: But I think I'm so deep into this now in terms of almost three years in, and I have people who. Some of those investors who didn't believe that I could do it, they definitely motivate me. I'm like, I'm, that's how I'm driven. It's like when people say, you know, when people say like, oh, I don't know, well this will work.

[00:34:03] Mallory Greene: That's like, really what drives me for it? I'm like, I will show you that this is going to be a billion dollar business. So, Like, you know what? I am very, I know myself, so if I'm having, I really work with ebbs and flows of motivation. So if I'm having a day where I just like not feeling it, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna run with it.

[00:34:20] Mallory Greene: I, maybe I'll do something like, like more admin type things that aren't like putting a lot of brain power, because then I have times where like I work like a full day and I'm just full speed and I'm doing so many things right. I don't think you can operate at 200% every single day. I think you have to just kind of.

[00:34:37] Mallory Greene: Know yourself and run with that, but, oh, I mean, every week I have moments where I'm like, oh gosh. And then sometimes I just go to bed early, wake up the next day and do it all over again. Like just understanding my limits, put on some sex in the city and, and call a day 

[00:34:53] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:55] Mallory Greene: You have to be, I mean, you have to be so kind to yourself as an entrepreneur.

[00:34:58] Mallory Greene: And you know, Kim was the person who told me that athletes really, like they have recovery in their rest time. Like, that's so critical to what they do on a day-to-day basis. And I've dated athletes and like I've never seen people take rest and recovery so intensely. And entrepreneurs should be no different than that.

[00:35:18] Mallory Greene: Like we should be having those times where, That's like, you're doing a sport, like you're running a 500 kilometer dash or whatever, like, it's like 500 kilometers. Yeah. So I think it's really important to be aware of that and, and take the time, take a step back every so often.

[00:35:34] Mallory Greene: It definitely brings more creativity and, and thought, when you take a step back and, and just have some time to just chill and, and then kind of get back at it.

[00:35:43] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Yeah. On the note of resting and motivation, What are the other maybe, I mean, I know there's more conversation now about like mental health and I mean in general mental health, but being a founder, How's your mental health been in the last few years and where do you hold that in level of like your performance as a founder?

[00:36:12] Mallory Greene: Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting because I think, like as a human, I've always been a high functioning, anxious person. I, and I didn't really actually know that not everyone feels anxious until I was at WealthSimple. And I was talking to one of my coworkers and she's like, I was describing how I always have a pit in my stomach.

[00:36:31] Mallory Greene: She's like, you know, like, not everyone has that. Like, you need to probably speak to someone. And I was like, wait, what? Not everyone's anxious 24/7. I literally just thought that was the case. I mean, anxiety definitely is a family thing. I think a lot of people in my family have anxiety and I describe them as high functioning because I don't have social anxiety.

[00:36:50] Mallory Greene: I don't I don't, I am not like paralyzed by doing anything. I just can't stop. Like, I wake up and I'm like, I have to do 400 things today. And by the end of the night I'm like, I did not do enough. So it was just like constant, constant. And I think that, Being an entrepreneur and a founder brought that to light even further.

[00:37:08] Mallory Greene: I mean, it's such a high pressure position to be in. And I, I got to a point actually this March where I was like, I don't think this is really healthy for me. I probably need to think of a solution here. So I actually spoke to my friend who's a family doctor, and I said, I've been thinking about trying anxiety medicine, relax, and I just want your thoughts on it because everyone on the internet is making me terrified.

[00:37:31] Mallory Greene: Like, everyone's like, you're a zombie. You will feel like crap. Like all these horrible things. And I was like, oh, I cannot afford to be a zombie as an entrepreneur. And so she was like Mallory, like some of the loudest people on the internet. Are going to have bad experiences, but there's a lot of people, like, it's a very common medicine to be on, so, you should just try it out.

[00:37:54] Mallory Greene: So I actually went to Felix Health and there was a free shout out to Felix Health and I spoke to one of their practitioners and I got a prescription for it. And I had, throughout the years I've, I've done therapy. I've done both, like both personally, but also through a kind of a coach like a professional coach that has the psycho psychologist aspect of it.

[00:38:15] Mallory Greene: But I think, you know, modern medicine exists for a reason and I, I didn't feel like it was bringing me to the point that I wanted to be. So, I got the prescription. I had basically no side effects when I started it. And to this day, like it's just been smooth sailing and I, it's funny, I was, the biggest concern I had would be that I would lose motivation or I'd be less productive because, you know, that anxiety really fueled me.

[00:38:41] Mallory Greene: But what ended up happening was, I'm like, so at peace now that I am way, way more productive than I've ever been. And at the end of the day, I can be confident that I've done my job and I'm gonna wake up again and do it the next day. So it's honestly been an incredible experience for me. I mean, you know, I've had a lot of people that I've told, I mean, I haven't told a lot of people, but like the stigma of, oh, well if you should get off of it and take this supplement, or, you know, like it's just a short term thing to get you through this period of your life.

[00:39:14] Mallory Greene: And I'm like, it's not for me. Like, I went into it knowing that, you know, what, if it didn't work out for me, that's okay. I'll continue to try other aspects or other avenues, but for me it's just, it's a tool in my toolbox. Like, it's helped me tremendously. And I'm so happy. Like I just feel so much lighter.

[00:39:31] Mallory Greene: I don't wake up with a pit in my stomach anymore. So, yeah I think once again, like that was the biggest thing I recognized that if you are, if you get into the position of being an entrepreneur and a CEO and a founder, you know, a lot of your stress is only going to increase. And so making sure that you're taking care of your mental health is just so, so critical.

[00:39:50] Mallory Greene: And, and maybe that evolves over time. Like maybe it's just you're speaking to a therapist and maybe you consider medicine or meditation or all these different avenues, but like, just being really in tune with your body is so critical. And not being scared to ask for help because I mean, I hope by sharing this, like people know that there're really good success stories and there's nothing wrong.

[00:40:13] Mallory Greene: Like I am, I'm a great founder and a great CEO and I also am, I'm anxious, but that's fine. Those things are all great. So, yeah, no I am happy to share that here because I think. I wish I had heard this sooner because I think that I was in a spot that I didn't need to be for a while.

[00:40:31] Mallory Greene: But now I'm just thriving through life, me and my super lap.

[00:40:35] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Do you mind, we don't have to go super deep into it, but what, like what were some of the, you know, really difficult times that made you go a step further to seek help? Like what were the kind of symptoms or what it felt like.

[00:40:54] Mallory Greene: honestly, it was fundraising. Like, I think once again, like just the, you know, it's funny, you finish fundraising and then it's like, okay, start having conversations for the next one. And I just, I don't know, I would say, especially being on medicine, I pitched someone last week and I was like, smooth sailing.

[00:41:11] Mallory Greene: I did a great job. I killed it. So now it doesn't bother me as much, but A bunch of things happened in the business in terms of like, we had some employee like going off and, and we had fundraising stuff and all these things were happening at once and it was just like, okay, I need to take a step back and just think about myself because I can't support the business if I'm not supporting myself ultimately.

[00:41:31] Mallory Greene: I really think it was just like a buildup over three years. I'm sure that I also had like an element of depression too, just because like, I mean, you know, the winter's so rough already and this was kind of January through March and you get in a mode when you're an entrepreneur where you're just like, I feel like I'm just like spinning my wheels every day.

[00:41:47] Mallory Greene: Like it's just, you know, like I'm not taking, I'm not taking the steps that I need to and I'm kind of really in the weeds of operations. And so, I think it was all of those things in combination that made me just think, you know I'm going to do this. And funny enough, I also put my dog on Prozac, which is very controversial for a lot of people.

[00:42:05] Mallory Greene: I mean, Prozac exists for dogs. He's also very anxious. and he and I now are living our best lives. So, he's chilled out. I'm chilled out. We are very happy.

[00:42:16] Rob Pintwala: So good to hear. That's great.

[00:42:18] Rob Pintwala: Do you view yourself as a founder and entrepreneur? Like do you just maybe this is a bad question 'cause you're just so immersed in it, but do you view this phase? I mean, you've talked about like. Post exit, like doing kind of what you want to do, like do you view this as

[00:42:34] Rob Pintwala: kind of like a more of a shorter term kind of thing for you?

[00:42:37] Rob Pintwala: Like a sprint and you just kind of gotta keep your head. What do you think about this? Or do you think you'll like just

[00:42:42] Rob Pintwala: continue like finding new opportunities? Like how do you may maybe, again, maybe this is a hard question…

[00:42:48] Mallory Greene: no, that's a good question. I think like I'm always like, I don't know what will happen with Irene in the sense of where we end up and do I run this for the rest of my life potentially? Do we sell it potentially? I mean, who knows? Once again, I just go with the flow of my life. I take it one day at a time.

[00:43:06] Mallory Greene: But I think as an entrepreneur, My co-founder, and I always say that we'll continue to build businesses together. I think I'm like, I'm in my element, as I said I feel that this is where I'm meant to be. I always have ideas. It's funny, people approach me and they're like, do you have ideas?

[00:43:23] Mallory Greene: And I'm like, constantly, because every day when I interact with people, I'm thinking like, it's horrible because they're telling me something in their life that's a pain point. And I'm like, how could I build a business around this? So, you know, I'm that type of person. Like, I just think there's so many cool things that have yet to be built and that can help people in their day-to-day life.

[00:43:41] Mallory Greene: So definitely I will always be an entrepreneur. And as I said, I mean, I'm taking it day by day. 'cause I mean, the world is it's, it's, there's a lot going on right now and as an entrepreneur, I think especially the last year for a lot of people, it's been challenging. And so I'm just, I'm seeing what happens, but I'm definitely excited about the future because I think.

[00:44:03] Mallory Greene: Once again I have a lot of ideas of what I'll do next. 

[00:44:06] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:44:07] Mallory Greene: but I'm focused. I'm focused right now because I, you know, I can't get distracted by everything that's in the back of my mind. Even people will be like, you should build this. I'm like, I don't have time. You know, I, it's Irene right now and we'll see what happens.

[00:44:21] Rob Pintwala: Yeah, you mentioned your co-founder. How has that been? I know it could be a pain point and breaking point for a lot of businesses when there's a co-founder relationship and I've also kind of heard you speak to your relationship separately before, but yeah. Tell me about more about how you support one another and like how you establish this

[00:44:43] Mallory Greene: Yeah. You know, once again, time, I always say time is so critical. So. Fazel and I were introduced by a mutual friend as two people who wanted to build a business. So we met for coffee one day. We talked about Irene or the concept kind of, of Irene and the industry. And we just took steps towards exploring it together.

[00:45:03] Mallory Greene: We've known each other now for about five years. We have an incredible relationship and I recognize that we're very lucky 'cause I, as you said, some people can have very challenging relationships and it's so hard because there's so much stress involved. And you need someone who's equally pulling their weight.

[00:45:19] Mallory Greene: So, like, there's so many elements of, of Fassal and I meeting and becoming co-founders, that once again came down to timing and connections and all of these elements that I'm very grateful for. Faisal is very different from me, and I think that's why it works so well. He's definitely a lot more chill than I am.

[00:45:34] Mallory Greene: He has different skill sets in terms of how he thinks about problem solving and like I would say he's more of a numbers person, more of a data person and I'm more of kind of operations, high level, big picture. So we, you know, we work incredibly well together. And I mean, we've never had any problems, which is, I hate, you know, when couples say like, we don't ever fight, and that's just like, okay, well that's toxic.

[00:45:56] Mallory Greene: Him and I just have the same communication style where we just [00:46:00] we're honest and very open with each other. If he is annoying me or says something I don't like, I'll just tell him and vice versa. And, then we kind of move on because ultimately we have the same vision and goal at the end of the day.

[00:46:10] Mallory Greene: And so, and there's always so much going on around us that we're very aligned with what we're doing day to day. So it's been Really great. And when I, even when I went on anxiety medicine, like I, Faisal was one of the first people I told. And I mean, he's, he literally would support anything that I do or say.

[00:46:26] Mallory Greene: So yeah, no it's been really good. But I think having a different per, like, I, I don't know if I could work with someone like myself if there were two of us. I'm not sure that would work out very well. But yeah it's been great. And as I said, we'll continue to build businesses as time goes on.

[00:46:41] Rob Pintwala: That sounds super healthy. It sounds amazing. Yeah. Good for you for holding onto that and yeah, I'm sure you do things to nurture that relationship.

[00:46:50] Mallory Greene: Yeah.

[00:46:51] Rob Pintwala: I wanted to use the final segment to actually talk a little bit more about life, related to your business death, and dying. And [00:47:00] so you, so your, one of your parents is a funeral director, the other one's in hospice.

[00:47:04] Rob Pintwala: And maybe, maybe for those who don't, aren't that familiar, like what is hospice care? What is that? 

[00:47:10] Mallory Greene: So hospice care. And, you know, it's so interesting. A lot of people think palliative care and hospice care are the same, and they're absolutely not. So if you often say to someone that they should seek palliative support, they're like, oh, so I'm, I'm dying now. And that's not the case. You could have palliative care your entire life.

[00:47:26] Mallory Greene: Really palliative care is supporting you in pain management and ensuring that you can live your best life despite having some type of illness or terminal illness or whatever that looks like. Hospice is different because hospice is where you go at the end of your life. I've spoken to people before who went to hospice and one of our investors, she was like, I was sitting outside of it and I was terrified to go because I had this idea of what a hospice would be.

[00:47:52] Mallory Greene: They're so nice. Like they are built like a home. They have kitchens, they have support dogs, they have music and all of these different things. So it's really like it's creating this beautiful environment for the final days of your life. So my mom, yeah, she's a hospice nurse. It's a very hard nurse to be.

[00:48:13] Mallory Greene: But I think she, and even kind of how I look at my role in the end of life is like, I think it's an honor to bring people through that stage of their life. I mean, death is just a part of life. It's not like this thing that we can cure or change is, it's just, I mean, our bodies are literally, they know how to die.

[00:48:32] Mallory Greene: So I really think it's an incredible concept. In fact, we do not have enough hospices specifically in Ontario, but I'm sure Canada wide for the amount of people who will need end of life support. 

[00:48:48] Mallory Greene: Spread it because we need more hospices. I mean, it's so critical and as I said, it really provides a great experience for the end of life.

[00:48:57] Mallory Greene: So I hope that once again, kind of in my work, I [00:49:00] can bring more awareness to the tools and services that we need as time goes on. Because right now for our population, like, yeah, we don't have what we need in place. But yeah, I mean, I hope that everyone ending your life in a hospice or spending the end of your life in a hospice, I think is just, it's so, so incredible.

[00:49:18] Mallory Greene: So I hope anyone who can experience it would definitely do that.

[00:49:22] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. Yeah, I think people are really afraid of it. I've, I mean, I even, again, think we've talked about this separately, reading some books about end of life and one in particular called Being Mortal that I really loved.

[00:49:34] Rob Pintwala: Top books a lot of the research in science says that when you actually like, stop trying to like, treat everything in like a hospital, you're trying to kind of.

[00:49:46] Rob Pintwala: Let's say you have cancer or something you're trying to do, like chemo or trying to do whatever you can to kind of fight whatever disease is kind of starting to take over. And if you transition into more of the, I think the palliative model is more about relieving suffering, right?

[00:50:00] Mallory Greene: it's like quality of life. Yeah. And quality of life. Yeah.

[00:50:04] Mallory Greene: Yeah. 

[00:50:04] Rob Pintwala: That includes like the other things like social and like even people talk about like in hospice, like there's no like beeping machines everywhere. 'cause like beeping

[00:50:12] Rob Pintwala: Like anxiety inducing in hospital and a lot of this data says that you actually live longer because the diseases don't progress as fast because you're in a such better environment. Like, so I find it's really fascinating and I'm personally looking at, you know, kind of learning about it. Some of the treatments for like end of life anxiety around psychedelics and things like that, which seems very interesting and extend life if you relieve some of that anxiety and give people some new perspective in the end.

[00:50:42] Mallory Greene: There wasn't there like a documentary or something about this recently? Yeah. I think someone who used psychedelics maybe in the US and kind of was in hospice and he like documented it all. I think that's what it was.

[00:50:57] Rob Pintwala: There's some stuff on Netflix. There's a couple documentaries called Dosed, dosed One and

[00:51:02] Rob Pintwala: Dosed two, which are Canadian health Canada has trials for end of life psilocybin use right now. 

[00:51:08] Mallory Greene: Oh wow.

[00:51:08] Rob Pintwala: but yeah, there's some really interesting stuff happening there. But yeah, maybe my next question is just around like, what have you learned around people, the people who are kind of coming to Irene?

[00:51:21] Rob Pintwala: I'm sure it's some folks that are kind of pre-planning their own You know, funerals end of life, but I'm sure it's a lot of people who are trying to plan it for folks for their parents or loved ones.

[00:51:32] Rob Pintwala: So what if like, you know, I've been in sales before selling to people or, you know, trying to educate people on products, but what have you learned about like, how to best care for people who

[00:51:47] Mallory Greene: Yeah. No, that's a good question. And I think once again, it's kind of, Irene is built around the opposite of what the funeral industry does today and, you know, ultimately the funeral industry is a business, right. So I've been asked the question before of how you approach. A business and making money in an industry that's kind of at the end of life, because it, I think to a lot of people, there may be a stigma around that.

[00:52:12] Mallory Greene: But I think, I mean, for me, I believe I can build a successful business and provide really great experiences for families simultaneously. And I think that's reflected through our Google reviews and the feedback that we receive. And so it's really at the end of the day, addressing the biggest pain points.

[00:52:29] Mallory Greene: While some people do pre-plan for the end of life, very few. So I think about 15% of Canadians have put their end of life wishes in place. I mean even, or Oregon donation, right? Like while most Canadians would say, I, I believe in organ donation, they aren't signed up to be organ donors. And so there's, I mean, there's a total lack of having those conversations and even demonstrating what kind of quality of life that you want at the end of your life, right?

[00:52:52] Mallory Greene: I mean, putting in writing for me it's like if I can't speak and if I can't eat. I don't really need to be here. Right. And putting those wishes and writing is so crucial. So I think when families find us, someone once said that she was calling a bunch of different funeral homes and she spoke to one of our funeral directors and she just felt like they, like, she, I think her words were like they got me.

[00:53:17] Mallory Greene: Like they, they have me. I'm in good hands. And our goal is to remove a lot of the burden of that experience from their lives. So one is like, not having to go in person. As soon as you lose someone, speak to someone face, sign, all this paperwork that's repetitive shows the specific urn that's like, has specific lighting so that you think it looks nicer than the one that's in the basement, in the darkness.

[00:53:42] Mallory Greene: 'cause it's cheaper. You know, all these decisions, I just don't think it's what's the word? I don't think it's. Just a great expectation that to have of people during this time making it more affordable, I think is a big piece of what we do. And, ensuring that people feel that we're being very transparent about our pricing.

[00:54:01] Mallory Greene: 'cause that doesn't really exist in the industry. then education. Ultimately, I think that as a business, what we can do is educate people on what their choices are. I feel happy if we can just do that, whether they choose our services or not, because there just isn't any education out there about all the different options and even how to memorialize people, right?

[00:54:23] Mallory Greene: Like people don't know that you can make diamonds and you can send remains to space and you can scatter them and you can turn 'em into stones. And like, there's so many unique things that people can do to memorialize people and kind of continue that grief journey. So it's really supporting people at the end of the day.

[00:54:39] Mallory Greene: You know, I have mixed feelings about grief being in the, this is a side note, but I had to say this in this podcast, I have mixed feelings about grief being in the mental health category because I don't know if I believe that grief is mental health. I think grief is just grief and it's, you know, it's a normal experience that we all go through. 

[00:55:00] Mallory Greene: And so I think, like Amy, when you look at a lot of people talking about like the five stages of grief, and I mean, that doesn't really exist. I mean, everyone grieves differently. There's different types of, of, uh, grievers and, and it's interesting like having a very different approach to end of life I think has been critical.

[00:55:15] Mallory Greene: And as we were talking about reading a lot of books, even kind of as people get diagnosed with terminal illness in the stages that their families go through in terms of conversations and planning and all of that has really helped me in providing a service that I think Just supports families in the way that they need.

[00:55:32] Mallory Greene: And I kind, I think at the beginning of this conversation, we talked about the feedback that you can get from people and really demonstrates that you made an impact and you helped 'em during that time. So as long as we can continue to do that I will be happy. I would love to get into the world of supporting 'em kind of in that first year because there's so many things that people don't know about what happens after somebody dies.

[00:55:54] Mallory Greene: The last thing I'll just say is that what often happens when somebody uses our services, what we call at needs, so someone has died and, and they require our services, um, what happens is the people reflect on their own wishes. So there's this natural transition into pre-planning that occurs. And I think once again if, if we can get people to kind of think about what they want for the end of their life and how they want to be that's a major win because ultimately as a society, we need to be having more of those conversations.

[00:56:21] Rob Pintwala: Yeah. I love that. That's incredible. I've witnessed my father-in-law's passing and yeah, a lot of chaos can ensue if there's not a great plan in place. And it's like, it's just like so thoughtful for people to do it themselves, be inside of leaving it to their loved ones. Right. I mean, it's hard to do.

[00:56:43] Mallory Greene: It makes it a lot easier. 

[00:56:47] Rob Pintwala: Awesome. Is there anything else that you wanted to share on the topic of mental health, being an entrepreneur, running a business in the death industry? 

[00:56:56] Mallory Greene: I can give you a lot of good information today, so, I hope a lot of people listen to this and enjoy it. And if I don't really have any more to share, I mean, I think it's, you know, I'm on TikTok and I always see people saying like, day in the life of an entrepreneur, and I'm like they like to go to Pilates and then they go up to eat and then they're with their boyfriend.

[00:57:15] Mallory Greene: And I'm like, where? At what point do you work? I think sometimes social media can not be a reflection of entrepreneurship and I think both of us know that. So if you're in it and you're like, why is my life not looking like this? I think that's just not a true reflection of building a business.

[00:57:30] Mallory Greene: And it's hard. It's very hard. But as I say, approach each day, put one foot in front of the other and yeah, just be kind to yourself. 'cause it is very challenging. But you know, hopefully everything we're doing pays off in the end. and yeah, there's a, there's still so much to come, so I appreciate you having me and hopefully I provided some wisdom. I don't know. We'll see.

[00:57:51] Rob Pintwala: At the very least, you inspired me. So thank you for crushing it and just being in the entrepreneur category. So thank you very much.

[00:57:59] Mallory Greene: Thank you. Thank you. 

[00:58:01] Rob Pintwala: So where's Irene at and where can people find you?

[00:58:05] Mallory Greene: So Irene, spelled e i r e n e, which means a state of peace because people always say, where did that name come from? And Irene really is a reflection of what we want our families to feel when they're interacting with our services. So everywhere it's just Irene, so irene.ca, Instagram, Irene, Twitter, Irene.

[00:58:25] Mallory Greene: If you want to find me on LinkedIn, my name's Mallory Green, which you'll probably see in the title of this. I'm always happy to connect specifically with women founders . That makes it sound like I don't wanna speak to men, but you know, women take more of a priority in my life. So, yeah, no, I'm happy to connect with anyone and whether it's just providing feedback or just being kind of someone to listen to the struggles of entrepreneurship I'm always happy to do that.

[00:58:47] Rob Pintwala: Love that. I love that invitation. I hope people will take you up on that. So thanks

[00:58:52] Rob Pintwala: Mallory, and hope you have a great afternoon and real pleasure speaking with you. So thanks again for coming on.

[00:58:57] Mallory Greene: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.​

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